this is in regard to your second post about Abortion, the Submit Comment button was not working:
First of all, I need to say this is the most ignorant blog I have ever read. The fact that you accuse people who don’t vote according to your morals as “baby killers”, is just stupid. I in no way support abortion, but that is not the only issue that weighs in on my voting decision. If one candidate is against abortion, but promotes everything else that I disagree with, I’m not voting for them.
Something else that struck me, is you’re okay with murder. Just not the murder of somebody that you consider innocent. So someone who rapes someone is fair game to kill? To me, murder is murder, regardless of the person being murdered. The government killing a rapist is murder. Christians are so quick to think that everything is situational. Like God could kill people all throughout the Bible, and that is okay because it was “the wrath of God” . If the government kills “the bad guy” that is okay too.
And for you to say that a woman being raped is not a victim, is just ignorant. All though, their response to it (Ex: abortion) may not be the right thing, they are still a victim and they were wronged regardless of what they did in response to it.
I’m personally tired of people standing on their soap boxes proclaiming these great truths but hiding away in their houses and doing nothing about it other than reading their Bibles and blogging. If you’re going to accuse anybody of anything, accuse the christians of being hypocrites. Instead of accusing the evil “Obama Voters” of murdering millions of babies.
The last thing we needed in office was another super duo like McCain/Palin to run things right into the ground. The only reason Christians do not support Obama is because he is not a republican and “christian” like Bush said to be.
I may not be christian, and I may vote for Obama, but while you’re in your comfortable little bubble blogging about your morals and ideals, I’m the one out there actively standing against abortion. Christians need to get out of their churches and actually start making a difference, because nobody cares what you have to say unless you act on it.
-Lily
Mike
January 15, 2010
12:30 am
Lily, thank you for visiting my blog.
2 Things… your statement that I said that raped women aren’t victims was simply inaccurate. It’s one thing to misread, but it’s quite another to misrepresent. But let me be very clear on what is the truth of the matter…
A woman who is raped is a victim of rape. A baby who is murdered by his mother is a victim of murder. The first situation NEVER justifies the second. If someone wants to take a life as a result of the first situation, would you say it is more just to take the innocent victim’s life, or the perpetrator’s life? Just curious as to who you believe is the guilty party worthy of the punishment…
But here’s the question I’m really hoping to get your thoughts on… Would you have voted for Mr. Obama as President if he were a member of the Nazi party?
If not, please state why… I’m serious. I really want to learn why you either would or wouldn’t. I’ll thank you, Lily, in advance for your response. And again, thank you for visiting my blog.
Like i said previously i do not at all believe abortion is right, and not even in most situations. But there is a huge difference between an army of men hunting down people because of their religious beliefs and putting them in camps to be murdered, and a woman having a baby removed from her uterus because of her own personal convictions. I know where you’re going with this, christians claim that abortion is the present holocaust, but comparing the fact that Obama is refusing to make abortion illegal, and Hilter ordering people to be murdered just based on the fact that they were different from him, is really making light of the fact that millions of jews were murdered just based off of one mans beliefs. Again let me state i do not think abortion is right, but comparing the holocaust to the fact that our government will never make abortion illegal is apple and oranges. Peta also compares farming to the holocaust, how many organizations can claim to have a holocaust on their hands? Instead of wasting our time with “what ifs” there are other issues at hand. My question for you is how any murder can be justified? Whether it is done by the government, or in the name of God. God has killed many people throughout the Bible but that was justified because it’s God and he knows what is best for everyone. I’m not a believer in murder whether it is the government executing a criminal, war, abortion, or just a cold hearted serial killer. It’s all devastating. But you stating that people who vote for Obama are to blame for all of the abortions is not a valid accusation. I personally have never had an abortion and never would. Another womans poor choices are not on my hands, it’s on hers. I also don’t believe that if i get up in heaven and God talks to me, that one of the strikes against me will be all of the abortions in the United States.
-Lily
Mike
January 15, 2010
4:02 pm
Lily, please pardon me. But I presented you with serious questions that deserve a serious response. Instead of answering them, you tap danced a little.
So let me say this differently. In your original email, you accused me of being a ‘one issue’ voter. So I’m trying to see if you are also a one issue voter… or do you, like me, have QUALIFYING issues – grids that candidates must pass through before you believe them to be qualified.
My position is simple. Any person who finds it within their moral code to advocate or permit the murder of INNOCENT human beings – whether innocent Jews or innocent babies – has disqualified themselves from holding public office – even dog catcher, let alone president.
So please pay me the dignity of an answer… If Mr. Obama’s party affiliation happened to be the Nazi Party, would you have still voted for him? After all… he’s with you on all the other issues you held so dear, and even you said abortion (the killing of an innocent human being) was just ONE of many issues. So what say you?
Lily Love
January 15, 2010
4:32 pm
There are many things i consider when voting for a candidate. Foreign policy, economics, health care…There are many things to consider when choosing someone to run our country. If you are asking whether i would vote for Obama if he had the ideals and morals of Hitler, no i would not.
Are any of us innocent? You said the murder of innocent human beings. From my knowledge of the Bible, there are none that are innocent or spotless, other than Christ. Correct? What determines ones innocence? And what determines ones guilt and deserving of death?
Mike
January 15, 2010
11:31 pm
Lily, you are quite a thinker! You ask many difficult questions of yourself that frankly, I see few being willing to engage. I admire the depth of your thoughts. So may I humbly offer just some perspective on what I see so far…
That indeed you would be one of those ’single issue voters’ depending on what that single issue is. Instead of ’single issue,’ I prefer what I believe is a more correct description… “qualifying issue” – things so sacred we value them more highly than just how much the minimum wage should be… or what side of the street to pave.
YOUR issue is… that you would never vote for someone who advocates Naziism (the killing of innocent Jews). I also agree with that. MY issue is that I would never vote for anyone who advocates abortion (the killing of innocent babies).
So let’s compare your issue to mine… At the end of the day, we have two sets of innocent people who end up murdered – but yet you tolerate murdered babies in exchange for ‘other issues’ while not tolerating murdered Jews for those same ‘other issues.’
Even moreso, strictly from a medical standpoint, the baby’s deaths are actually more brutal because they are physically dismembered… in that, I mean they have their legs torn off in sequence. Their arms. Their heads poked with scissors. I mean – it is the most brutal, repugnant, vomitous procedure you can envision – although both manners of death are utterly intolerable.
So may I ask you a very important question?
What is the difference between an innocent baby and an innocent Jew?
Lily Love
January 16, 2010
9:46 am
Honestly, regardless of who was in office, abortion will never be illegal. There are too many liberals and pro-choice people running the country for it ever to be illegal. So if i had voted for McCain, he would never get abortion illegal, and isn’t that the goal? To me, murder is murder…you would support a candidate who supports the death penalty, and i voted for someone that is pro-choice. In the end, we both voted for murderers.
I have been trying to answer your questions, and you have not yet answered any of mine. In your previous message back to me you said the murder of INNOCENT humans. I would like to know how a mere human is to determine someones innocence or guilt to the point of being worthy of death. And does that mean you support the murder of “guilty” parties?
Mike
January 16, 2010
10:41 am
Lily, I’m really enjoying hearing your thoughts on this issue. But frankly, you’ve run into a wall… refusing to answer the pivotal question I’ve asked you. I will answer ALL of your questions regardless of what they are. But before you want to move ‘off topic’ please confront the pivotal question relevant to our original debate…
“What is the difference between an innocent Jew and an innocent baby?”
The reason I will go no further until you answer this is because you are willing to tolerate one kind of slaughter and not the other – and I can’t reconcile your two different positions on two different groups of innocent people.
That’s why I am allowing you to reconcile it with your explanation… please do share it.
Lily Love
January 16, 2010
1:25 pm
There is no difference between a baby, a jew, a criminal or any of them. If any of them are murdered it is murder. I agree with that. None of it is right. So whether you are supporting one candidate that supports abortion, or one that supports capital punishment, they both support some type of murder. I don’t support either type of slaughter personally. I do not condone it or practice it. But going back to the original question at hand, is how could i be put on trial and told that all of the abortions in the united states are my fault because i voted for Obama, if you’re not held accountable for all of the blood on your hands from capital punishment? Murder is murder. you as well are tolerating one type of slaughter and not another. So my answer is jews and babys are not different at all, they are both human and its both considered murder.
Jason
January 16, 2010
10:56 pm
This is an excellente conversation. In the end you are both being accused of advocating one type of murder and not another. However, this debate will most likely not get resolved if it continues without clarification.
Let me introduce myself. My name is Jason, I am the guitar player in AWEband and good friend of Mikes. I read this and can’t help but see Two different arguements. Lily I see you looking at MURDER as the issue at hand. Mike is looking at the Murder of INNOCENT People.
I can see why you (Lily) hold such a strong passion for being “pro-life” yet, will “compromise” your own morals for cheaper healthcare, lower taxes, etc… whatever it may be. The way I see it, from what you have written over and over, is that you are not “Pro-Life” to our definition. You are “Anti-Murder”.
I am Pro-Life, I believe that killing an unborn baby is Murder. Do I believe that YOU will be held personally responsible for those murders because you voted for a Pro-Choice congress? I can’t answer that. However, I do know that when we die, we will be held responsible for ALL of the choices that we made. Every choice, no matter how small will affect your life forever, and change it in some way.
I personally believe in Capital Punishment. If someone WILLINGLY, Plots, Plans, and Carries Out Killing even ONE Person.. I believe he/she should suffer the same consequence and pay the ultimate price for Purposely taking someone elses life.
Jason
January 16, 2010
11:00 pm
Correction: I believe he/she should suffer the same consequence and pay and the ultimate price for Purposely taking another INNOCENT persons life.
Mike
January 17, 2010
1:01 am
Thank you Lily. Since you now claim to believe that murdering innocent babies is the moral equivalent of murdering innocent Jews, then fill in this blank…
Lily believes killing innocent Jews is murder, and would never pull the lever for anyone who advocates that position, regardless of how they stand on other issues.
Lily believes that killing innocent babies is murder, but WOULD pull the level for someone who advocates that position, as long as they are right on ‘other issues.’
Lily believes that innocent babies are not worthy of the same ‘voter loyalty’ as innocent Jews because…
Lily Love
January 17, 2010
10:47 am
If someone is truly pro-life, shouldn’t you be pro EVERY life? I pull the lever for someone who is pro-choice just in the same way you pull the lever for someone who is pro-capital punishment. I don’t understand how you can view the murder of a baby, as worse than the murder of a criminal. I’ve said it a million times which for some reason you aren’t thinking is true, or trying to avoid it because you don’t want to admit that capital punishment is murder, murder of anyone whether it be a baby, criminal or jew is murder.
“I explained my belief that few women made the decision to terminate a pregnancy casually; that any pregnant woman felt the full force of the moral issues involved when making that decision; that I feared a ban on abortion would force women to seek unsafe abortions, as they had once done in this country. I suggested that perhaps we could agree on ways to reduce the number of women who felt the need to have abortions in the first place.”- Barack Obama
Barack Obama is concerned about the fact that women will then seek unsafe ways to terminate their pregnancies. I think if abortion were illegal, they would be going to different countries to get abortions, doing it themselves with coat hangers in back allies, the number of babies found in dumpsters would escalate and suicide numbers would also increase. Obama has always voted to ban late term partial birth abortions. He in no way is “nazi-like” in his ways of a holocaust. I believe in Obamas vision of a nation where less women feel the need to get abortions, through making adoption more accessible and having safe sex AND abstinence taught in schools. I know in a perfect world they would only teach abstinence and none of the kids would have sex in response to that, but it will never happen. So if we focus on educating the people about abortion and how horrific it actually is, and giving them other options, i think we will be on our way to having women who don’t consider abortion an option.
There is a much larger issue here than whether abortion is legal or not, it’s that the woman in this country have a lack of morals and are in for a quick way out of a commitment. Which that will not go away if abortion is made illegal.
Mike
January 18, 2010
11:40 am
Lily, I will enage you on ANY ISSUE you wish. Promise! We have lots of time to do that, and it will be my privilege to give you that platform on my blog… but not at the expense of, or diversion from, this most pivotal question that demands the dignity of your very direct and forthright response. So once again…
You are willing to give innocent Jews a vote of protection at the ballot box that you are not willing to give innocent babies. You’ve admitted that.
By affording them 2 different treatements, you are therefore confessing that you hold them at 2 different value levels – or else your behavior toward these 2 groups wouldn’t be any different.
YOU HAVE NOT explained, however, what exactly is that moral difference between innocent babies and innocent Jews – why one is so serious you could never vote for it, but the other you would be willing to tolerate because of other more important issues.
Please anwer the question directly before continuing on. Or at least have the courage to admit that you don’t know why… and we can pick it up from there.
What is the difference between an innocent baby and an innocent Jew?
Frank
January 22, 2010
10:34 am
Why do pro-lifers only talk about abortion ? A life is a life….you cannot be pro-life and pro-capital punishment.
You cannot be Pro-life and support a war in Iraq and Ahfghanistan.
Sorry, there is no inbetween…a life is a life and there is only one entity that can take a life, you will meet it when you die
Lily Love
January 22, 2010
10:00 pm
Thank you for your comment Frank! I have said that millions of times but he doesn’t seem to think that is the truth. Pro Life is Pro EVERY
Lily Love
January 22, 2010
10:01 pm
life ..not just a babies life…you should not be pro war, pro capital punishment, or anything that involves the taking of a life
Mike
January 23, 2010
12:25 am
Let the record officially show that Lily was not able to answer the question, lest she convict herself by her own answer.
Lily, you cannot even answer this question before ME. But you WILL have to account to your heavenly Father for your tolerance of the murder of little innocent babies, created in His image, in exchange for other ‘more important issues.’
Very seriously, you really must completely depart from this. Furthermore, your inability to confront why you give two innocent groups differing treatments is at once telling and damning.
You and those like you, who carelessly play fast and loose with innocent life in exchange for ‘other issues’ are far from the heart and will of God. Your votes are directly responsible for perpetuating the mother’s womb as the most unsafe place in American society.
I invite you to Google search pictures of aborted babies. LOOK AT IT if you can! Tell me if it is some tissue blob you can remain indifferent to, or is this an innocent human life slaughtered on the altar of the mother’s convenience?
Do you really want to stand before God knowing that the blood of these babies are on YOUR hands because you voted to make this possible?
Lily Love
January 23, 2010
7:21 am
Wow! very Christ-like of you to say everyone that voted for Obama is far from the heart of God. And you state that your a band trying to bring people to Christ and show them the love? You have done nothing of the sort. If anyone differs in opinions you have shown how easily you write them off and condemn them.
and for the record, i did answer the question. I don’t view them differently. There was more to nazis than just killing the jews, that is just the part that every uneducated person who went to jr. high knows about. There are many reasons as to why i don’t view Nazis and the Obama administration as the same thing. And the blood of all of the babies are not on my hands, they are on the hands of the mothers who commited those acts. Whether i voted for obama or not, it wouldn’t stop those mothers from walking in that clinic and getting the abortion. And i don’t believe God is going to hold you accountable for my sins, so why would i be held accountable for someone elses sins?
Eric
January 24, 2010
11:52 pm
So Lily… I’ve noticed that Mr. Warner has accused you of “tap dancing” around the issue. Well, he is putting on a good performance himself. I’ve read this whole comment section and Lily has answered every question posed to her.. several times in fact. Mr. Warner, however, has cleverly avoided every single issue. Typical christian.. they will never directly answer a question but instead will answer a question with a question, throw in a pinch of blame and then spew out some bible verses as if that proves some sort of point.
I love how judgmental the christians are. They preach of love and forgiveness but they DO NOT practice that. They preach “GO WITNESS, PLANT THE SEED, BE HIS VOICE, LEAD BY EXAMPLE” but noooo do not spend any time with the “sinners” because you might catch what they have or you may waste your time being “ungodly” or perhaps even tempted. How do you expect people to be led to christ if you dont spend time with them? Shun the obama voters, shun the gays.. spit on them rather than love them. Yeah, sounds like a great plan.
And what may I ask does Hitler have to do with this? That is such a cheap shot and one that people seem to use when they know they are losing an argument. No one supports Nazis.. thats a ridiculous comparison. And Mr. Warner has failed multiple times to respond to the allegation of supporting capital punishment.. Christians think that “bad” people deserve to die.. when in fact we are all bad people. And what happened to sin is sin is sin. How do you justify the murder of an adult criminal v. an innocent baby? You dont know that criminals life. Do they not deserve a chance to repent and ask for forgiveness? Eh, forget it.. just burn them, they deserve it right? God did not create the human race to act as his minions and do his dirty work. Why don’t the christians just stop already? Why dont they actually try something different and LOVE people? No.. that would be too much work. They wouldnt be able to hide behind their bibles and play cute little concerts, but instead do some real hard work.
My advice? Practice what you preach, for once.
Frank
January 25, 2010
12:01 pm
Again I will state Pro-Life is Pro-Life for every life, it really is simple but the Religous Right and the Republican Right love to only consider unborn babies as the focus of Pro-Life. There’s nothing more shocking than a picture of a bloddy aborted fetus but why not a picture of a dismembered soldier? How about a picture of a body after electrocution ? Nah this doesn’t fit the agenda.
The whole abortion issue is nothing but a carrot held out by the republican party to lure the righteous voters in voting for the ” Pro-Life” candidate but I ask why wasn’t abortion made illegal why the Republicans had control?
We can go round and round, I don’t support abortion being a Father of 2 Children and I would never recommend it to anyone as a solution but at the same time I don’t believe it should be illegal…..it’s a woman’s choice that they will have to live with, making it illegal changes nothing.
I believe in a Libertarian society where self responsibility is goal #1 and everyone is accountable for their actions, not a society controlled by government and religion because they are man made .
Again I will ask all REAL Pro-lifers to stand for all life…..denounce the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and take a stand against Capital Punishment…..if not, you are hiding behind the Abortion Issue so no one can see your true colours.
Mike
January 26, 2010
12:56 am
For those who would consider voting for a pro-abortion candidate but would never even consider voting for a pro-Jew-killing candidate, please look at the pictures of an abortion on this site http://www.antiabortionsigns.com/catalog.html and tell me if you still think you can vote indifferently to the holocaust that is abortion, in exchange for ‘other important issues.’ Let’s see if you would still give these holocausts 2 different standards of treatment at the ballot box…
Frank
January 26, 2010
8:49 am
Mike
Will you please take your blinders off and consider all life important ? Will you please be a real Pro-lifer and stand against the war and capital punishment?
If not you are a farce!
Eric
January 26, 2010
4:07 pm
Mr. Warner.. do you even read the comments in this section??? What is your fascination with the Nazis, Hitler and the holocaust?? Each person has stated that they do not approve of said things.. but again, you retreat back to your weak comparison. Also, we have all see the pictures of the aborted fetuses. They are horrific. But lets move away from the dead babies/dead Jews debate and why don’t you re-read the comments that have been previously added and actually be a reasonable human being and a MAN and try and answer some questions. You wouldn’t want to come off hypocritical now would you? You sound like a broken record. I believe everyone here wants to and deserves a real response and a legitimate discussion.
Lily Love
January 26, 2010
6:11 pm
I’m starting to think that Mike will only debate with women, because regardless of what every other man on here writes, he will only direct anything towards me. Maybe its because he feels he can over power women and get them to back down? Who knows. But it blows me away that despite everyone telling you something on this blog, you continue to ignore it. And you accused me of tap dancing? Every issue you brought up, i did respond to..but you, you just ignore it because i honestly believe you don’t know what to believe. I think you don’t want to accept that capital punishment is murder, that war is murder…because God did all of those things in the Bible. God says there will be war and the whole “eye for an eye” deal. So if someone murders, let them be murdered, is the whole biblical concept, correct? I believe you don’t know the answer to any of the questions posed to you about capital punishment or any other type of murder. Are you truely pro-life? Instead of calling your “anthem for the nation” a pro-life song…call it the pro-baby anthem…because it talks only about abortion…what about all of the other lives? Babies, full grown adults, teens, children..whatever the case- are all lives regardless of the mistakes made. The dictionary doesn’t define a “life” as only something considered to be innocent.
Frank
January 27, 2010
8:20 am
Lily & Eric….thanks for the back up and agreement that all life is important. It really baffles me how the Christian right has blinders on and is only focused on abortion.
It almost seems that if they only focus on abortion that they may also get rid of one other of their hangups….SEX, without SEX there can be no unwanted pregnancies thus no need for abortion.
This may be a stretch but it falls into their agenda.
Just for the record, I am a practicing Catholic but I consider myself a “Buffet” Catholic ( I pick and choose what I agree with). I am a Christian at heart and I believe religion has been a tool of man for many of the wrong reasons since the dawn of time.
At the end of the day I still believe everyone has to answer for what they’ve done.
As far as Mike Warner’s music, Brian Warner’s music may be more relevant to today’s society than Mike’s.
Mike
January 27, 2010
1:26 pm
You have all tried marvelously to prevent from having to answer the question. But until Lily admits the real reason why she doesn’t mind pulling the lever for a candidate who supports the lagalized killing of innocent babies, whereas she would never support a candidate who would support the legalized killing of Jews, I have no further comment. Avoiding the original question is NOT engaging in substantive debate.
If you had read MY comments, I assured her (and I will assure all of you) that we have plenty of time to discuss other issues. I am willing to discuss ALL issues, but not out of turn.
So Lily… I am not going to let you wiggle out of this one. You never answered the question… please explain your voting difference between the legalized killing of babies and legalized killing of Jews. Why is one people group so important that you would ALWAYS vote against a pro-Jew-killing candidate, but you’re not willing to apply the same standard to the pro-baby-killing candidate?
If you are claiming they have the same value to you, your behavior would be the same. But it isn’t. You treat them differently. YOU confessed that. I’m asking the question until YOU define that difference.
Fievel
January 27, 2010
6:17 pm
Pop quiz!
Lets say, for example, a 13 year old girl ends up getting pregnant. She does not want the child, but her parents are against abortion, and, furthermore, the family is poor and unable to raise a child.
The girl has the baby, and it is given up for adoption. The child grows up in a rough setting, and is abused by its caretakers. When the child reaches its teen years, it can no longer handle it’s living situation and ends up killing its caretakers and the rest of their family.
Considering only this case, would it have been better if the 13 your old girl had an abortion?
Keep in mind, the un-aborted child suffered through life, and ended up killing multiple people.
Fievel
January 27, 2010
6:23 pm
Pop quiz, case study 2!
Say for example, a parent finds out that their child is positive for the gene that causes Huntington’s Disease which is a horrible disease that usually has onset around the age of 20 years old. This is generally the age at which an individual develops their own personal life and identity. This disease causes severe cognitive decline, physical decline, and generally poses a severe burden on the family. Wouldn’t it just be easier to have aborted this child and prevented a lifetime of suffering and simply just conceive a child that is born healthy that could potentially live a full life free of negative physical, emotional, and cognitive consequences. Thank You.
Mike
January 27, 2010
8:49 pm
Hi guys. BOTH are great questions, and I can’t wait to discuss them. However, I would like to start that on a different thread, under a differently stated topic heading.
Do you think “Abortion Exceptions” would be a good one? I could set it up and (I think) successfully copy your comments to that page. Thoughts?
Frank
January 28, 2010
8:31 am
Mike
Please answer these questions and stop dodging them by focusing on Lily, your questions about Jews are irrelevent since killing Jews in the USA has never been legalized nor will it ever be
Isn’t all life valuable?
How can you support war and Capital Punishment?
C’mon Mike, step up to the plate and rejoice!
Lily Love
January 31, 2010
10:34 pm
Mike,
I would never vote for it because I would never have the choice to vote for it in this country. I’m not okay with killing jews, or killing babies. So stop beating a dead horse.
Mike
February 3, 2010
12:57 am
Lily… checkmate.
And if you’re not going to answer the question, please don’t blog here anymore. Your ‘Debate 101′ tactic of trying to change subjects, or now claiming that “I would never vote for [Naziism] because I would never have the choice to vote for [Naziism] in this country” has revealed how vacant your reasoning is. Not to mention grossly intellectually dishonest.
So go ahead… keep trying to explain that somehow the best way you can combat the horror of abortion is to KEEP VOTING FOR PRO-’BABY-KILLING’ candidates. It makes no sense to me; won’t make sense to God when you stand before Him.
God help the Jews, should Naziism should ever gain hold in America. Using Lilly’s reasoning, applied to a similar human atrocity, I know how she would recommend combatting the horror of killing innocent Jews… by VOTING FOR THE NAZIS.
Do you see how senseless that kind of reasoning is? So please, don’t pretend you care. Not here on my blog. You’re only interested in not having to admit you’re wrong – and apparently at anybody’s cost.
Either answer the question or admit you don’t have one. At least then I’d respect you as honest. But for now, your own words reveal you as brazenly hypocritical… while the babies mount up – along with your votes to keep it that way.
Frank
February 12, 2010
1:15 pm
Mike
Why are you a racist? You must be cause you will not answer my questions? Forget about Lilly Love!!!
Please answer this:
Isn’t all life valuable?
How can you support war and Capital Punishment?
C’mon Mike, step up to the plate and rejoice!
Jim
February 18, 2010
11:57 am
To every blogger, I have read all answers and questions and find it quite intresting. First Lily never did answer the original question. The question was How can she vote for someone who is ok with killing babies if other issues suit her, but would not vote for Hitler even if all other issues suit her?And all Mike is asking is for is an answer to this question, and then he will go on with other questions.And in case Liliy dosen’t know true christians are out and about trying to open peoples eyes,and are not hiding in our houses “clinging to our bibles”or in our”soap boxes” Have you not heard of Focus on the Family or noticed church groups and the work they do? The problem is there are to many people that use the word christian so loosely ,and this gives all of them bad names. Second where does Frank come up with Mike supporting war and capital punishmint? In case you don’t know plenty of Democrats have agreed in war and capital punishment.Even Obama.Unless you forgort we are still fighting a war .I say this because I guess your saying Mike agrees with these because he voted Republican.The remark of racist was also a show of your intellegence,and completely unfounded,and uncalled for.Third Fievel , your first pop quiz is pretty lame,alot of what ifs. Your second pop quiz , sure takes alot of stock in the word potentialy ,I think that means, may happen . An argument can easily be made the other way for babies who “potentialy” may have diseases but were not aborted and made huge benifits to society, never developing there said desease.Lily, As far as innocent, the word means uncorrupted by evil,malice,or wrongdoing;sinless;pure.Not guilty of a specific crime, or something unethical.So that is how you can determine if a person is innocent or not according to the actions chose to do against the said one.Lily’s talk of Obama being for less abortions must be a well kept hidden secret because his actions and appointies speak other wise. In case you don’t know funding for abstinence education was cut while safesex teaching was raised.He has repeatedly helped Planned Parenthood.Very good moral values,and his voting record on abortion is the most liberal of any Senator there has ever been. Look up the facts.And as far as this election there were plenty of other “issues”and reasons on why to not vote for Obama . Some of the moral issues ,abortion,same sex marriage,and teaching of homosexuallity and transgender in our schools (to children as young as 6&7)is a disgrace.Case in point being his appointment of safe school czar Kevin Jennings.Those of you who think your voting for lower taxes better be ready for the cap and trade ,You see Democrats hide the raising of you taxes and call them programs or funds.This is not to mention His socialistic views. I guess what I’m saying is If you have any morals and enjoy our” Republic “(that is what we are , read the constitution)I don’t see how you could vote for this man.In closing being prolife is more then just about abortion, it is about life from conception to death, this includes embryos, babies , adults, the elderly and assisited suicide. God is the one who makes the gift of life and it should be him that decides when it is over.
Frank
February 22, 2010
10:39 am
Yo Mike…A great anti-abortion song for you band to is [Frank, I have elected to edit this song recommendation because I do not want to drive people to that band - whose name itself is profane], give it a whirl…simple chords so even you band should be able to do it!
Frank
March 5, 2010
10:59 am
Sex as a word is profane? is it not even listed in the bible? So the bible has profane words in it? Mike please get real, you are probably pro-censorship.
Mike
March 6, 2010
12:50 pm
No, “sex” is not a profanity by itself. After all, wasn’t it God who created it?
But indiscrete use of the word – especially in conjunction with another word (like the band name that you posted) is definitely a profane thought. And on MY blog, I censor vulgarity – many eyes are watching this.
Expression of ideas – always. Employment of vulgarity in the process of those ideas – never tolerated here.
I respect the integrity of the ideas and our audience too much to degrade either of them. So while I continue to welcome your and other’s thoughts, I do ask all to respectfully refrain from any use of vulgarity – especially when that same idea could be expressed using less offensive terminology. Thanks.
Frank
March 8, 2010
3:56 pm
OK, then I’ll censor it myself….your band should think about playing the song ” Bodies” written by Glen Matlock, Steve Jones and John Lydon. It’s one of the most powerful and honest anti-abortion songs I’ve ever heard. Give it a listen with an open mind, it echoes your sentiments.
I also saw something very ironic today while driving to work on the bumper of an automobile. One sticker on one side stating ” Life is Precious” and on the other side ” GO ARMY”
Ya gotta luv NEPA!
cindy
April 2, 2010
9:37 pm
I know I am late to the conversation but I just don;t understand where the problem is with the 2 bumper stickers . . . “Life is Precious” absolutely – “go army” thank you for protecting lives, the army (at least that in the US) does not walk around killing for no reason they are protecting the precious lives of many
Lily
January 14, 2010
6:56 pm
this is in regard to your second post about Abortion, the Submit Comment button was not working:
First of all, I need to say this is the most ignorant blog I have ever read. The fact that you accuse people who don’t vote according to your morals as “baby killers”, is just stupid. I in no way support abortion, but that is not the only issue that weighs in on my voting decision. If one candidate is against abortion, but promotes everything else that I disagree with, I’m not voting for them.
Something else that struck me, is you’re okay with murder. Just not the murder of somebody that you consider innocent. So someone who rapes someone is fair game to kill? To me, murder is murder, regardless of the person being murdered. The government killing a rapist is murder. Christians are so quick to think that everything is situational. Like God could kill people all throughout the Bible, and that is okay because it was “the wrath of God” . If the government kills “the bad guy” that is okay too.
And for you to say that a woman being raped is not a victim, is just ignorant. All though, their response to it (Ex: abortion) may not be the right thing, they are still a victim and they were wronged regardless of what they did in response to it.
I’m personally tired of people standing on their soap boxes proclaiming these great truths but hiding away in their houses and doing nothing about it other than reading their Bibles and blogging. If you’re going to accuse anybody of anything, accuse the christians of being hypocrites. Instead of accusing the evil “Obama Voters” of murdering millions of babies.
The last thing we needed in office was another super duo like McCain/Palin to run things right into the ground. The only reason Christians do not support Obama is because he is not a republican and “christian” like Bush said to be.
I may not be christian, and I may vote for Obama, but while you’re in your comfortable little bubble blogging about your morals and ideals, I’m the one out there actively standing against abortion. Christians need to get out of their churches and actually start making a difference, because nobody cares what you have to say unless you act on it.
-Lily
Mike
January 15, 2010
12:30 am
Lily, thank you for visiting my blog.
2 Things… your statement that I said that raped women aren’t victims was simply inaccurate. It’s one thing to misread, but it’s quite another to misrepresent. But let me be very clear on what is the truth of the matter…
A woman who is raped is a victim of rape. A baby who is murdered by his mother is a victim of murder. The first situation NEVER justifies the second. If someone wants to take a life as a result of the first situation, would you say it is more just to take the innocent victim’s life, or the perpetrator’s life? Just curious as to who you believe is the guilty party worthy of the punishment…
But here’s the question I’m really hoping to get your thoughts on… Would you have voted for Mr. Obama as President if he were a member of the Nazi party?
If not, please state why… I’m serious. I really want to learn why you either would or wouldn’t. I’ll thank you, Lily, in advance for your response. And again, thank you for visiting my blog.
Lily Love
January 15, 2010
11:45 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin’s_law
Like i said previously i do not at all believe abortion is right, and not even in most situations. But there is a huge difference between an army of men hunting down people because of their religious beliefs and putting them in camps to be murdered, and a woman having a baby removed from her uterus because of her own personal convictions. I know where you’re going with this, christians claim that abortion is the present holocaust, but comparing the fact that Obama is refusing to make abortion illegal, and Hilter ordering people to be murdered just based on the fact that they were different from him, is really making light of the fact that millions of jews were murdered just based off of one mans beliefs. Again let me state i do not think abortion is right, but comparing the holocaust to the fact that our government will never make abortion illegal is apple and oranges. Peta also compares farming to the holocaust, how many organizations can claim to have a holocaust on their hands? Instead of wasting our time with “what ifs” there are other issues at hand. My question for you is how any murder can be justified? Whether it is done by the government, or in the name of God. God has killed many people throughout the Bible but that was justified because it’s God and he knows what is best for everyone. I’m not a believer in murder whether it is the government executing a criminal, war, abortion, or just a cold hearted serial killer. It’s all devastating. But you stating that people who vote for Obama are to blame for all of the abortions is not a valid accusation. I personally have never had an abortion and never would. Another womans poor choices are not on my hands, it’s on hers. I also don’t believe that if i get up in heaven and God talks to me, that one of the strikes against me will be all of the abortions in the United States.
-Lily
Mike
January 15, 2010
4:02 pm
Lily, please pardon me. But I presented you with serious questions that deserve a serious response. Instead of answering them, you tap danced a little.
So let me say this differently. In your original email, you accused me of being a ‘one issue’ voter. So I’m trying to see if you are also a one issue voter… or do you, like me, have QUALIFYING issues – grids that candidates must pass through before you believe them to be qualified.
My position is simple. Any person who finds it within their moral code to advocate or permit the murder of INNOCENT human beings – whether innocent Jews or innocent babies – has disqualified themselves from holding public office – even dog catcher, let alone president.
So please pay me the dignity of an answer… If Mr. Obama’s party affiliation happened to be the Nazi Party, would you have still voted for him? After all… he’s with you on all the other issues you held so dear, and even you said abortion (the killing of an innocent human being) was just ONE of many issues. So what say you?
Lily Love
January 15, 2010
4:32 pm
There are many things i consider when voting for a candidate. Foreign policy, economics, health care…There are many things to consider when choosing someone to run our country. If you are asking whether i would vote for Obama if he had the ideals and morals of Hitler, no i would not.
Are any of us innocent? You said the murder of innocent human beings. From my knowledge of the Bible, there are none that are innocent or spotless, other than Christ. Correct? What determines ones innocence? And what determines ones guilt and deserving of death?
Mike
January 15, 2010
11:31 pm
Lily, you are quite a thinker! You ask many difficult questions of yourself that frankly, I see few being willing to engage. I admire the depth of your thoughts. So may I humbly offer just some perspective on what I see so far…
That indeed you would be one of those ’single issue voters’ depending on what that single issue is. Instead of ’single issue,’ I prefer what I believe is a more correct description… “qualifying issue” – things so sacred we value them more highly than just how much the minimum wage should be… or what side of the street to pave.
YOUR issue is… that you would never vote for someone who advocates Naziism (the killing of innocent Jews). I also agree with that. MY issue is that I would never vote for anyone who advocates abortion (the killing of innocent babies).
So let’s compare your issue to mine… At the end of the day, we have two sets of innocent people who end up murdered – but yet you tolerate murdered babies in exchange for ‘other issues’ while not tolerating murdered Jews for those same ‘other issues.’
Even moreso, strictly from a medical standpoint, the baby’s deaths are actually more brutal because they are physically dismembered… in that, I mean they have their legs torn off in sequence. Their arms. Their heads poked with scissors. I mean – it is the most brutal, repugnant, vomitous procedure you can envision – although both manners of death are utterly intolerable.
So may I ask you a very important question?
What is the difference between an innocent baby and an innocent Jew?
Lily Love
January 16, 2010
9:46 am
Honestly, regardless of who was in office, abortion will never be illegal. There are too many liberals and pro-choice people running the country for it ever to be illegal. So if i had voted for McCain, he would never get abortion illegal, and isn’t that the goal? To me, murder is murder…you would support a candidate who supports the death penalty, and i voted for someone that is pro-choice. In the end, we both voted for murderers.
I have been trying to answer your questions, and you have not yet answered any of mine. In your previous message back to me you said the murder of INNOCENT humans. I would like to know how a mere human is to determine someones innocence or guilt to the point of being worthy of death. And does that mean you support the murder of “guilty” parties?
Mike
January 16, 2010
10:41 am
Lily, I’m really enjoying hearing your thoughts on this issue. But frankly, you’ve run into a wall… refusing to answer the pivotal question I’ve asked you. I will answer ALL of your questions regardless of what they are. But before you want to move ‘off topic’ please confront the pivotal question relevant to our original debate…
“What is the difference between an innocent Jew and an innocent baby?”
The reason I will go no further until you answer this is because you are willing to tolerate one kind of slaughter and not the other – and I can’t reconcile your two different positions on two different groups of innocent people.
That’s why I am allowing you to reconcile it with your explanation… please do share it.
Lily Love
January 16, 2010
1:25 pm
There is no difference between a baby, a jew, a criminal or any of them. If any of them are murdered it is murder. I agree with that. None of it is right. So whether you are supporting one candidate that supports abortion, or one that supports capital punishment, they both support some type of murder. I don’t support either type of slaughter personally. I do not condone it or practice it. But going back to the original question at hand, is how could i be put on trial and told that all of the abortions in the united states are my fault because i voted for Obama, if you’re not held accountable for all of the blood on your hands from capital punishment? Murder is murder. you as well are tolerating one type of slaughter and not another. So my answer is jews and babys are not different at all, they are both human and its both considered murder.
Jason
January 16, 2010
10:56 pm
This is an excellente conversation. In the end you are both being accused of advocating one type of murder and not another. However, this debate will most likely not get resolved if it continues without clarification.
Let me introduce myself. My name is Jason, I am the guitar player in AWEband and good friend of Mikes. I read this and can’t help but see Two different arguements. Lily I see you looking at MURDER as the issue at hand. Mike is looking at the Murder of INNOCENT People.
I can see why you (Lily) hold such a strong passion for being “pro-life” yet, will “compromise” your own morals for cheaper healthcare, lower taxes, etc… whatever it may be. The way I see it, from what you have written over and over, is that you are not “Pro-Life” to our definition. You are “Anti-Murder”.
I am Pro-Life, I believe that killing an unborn baby is Murder. Do I believe that YOU will be held personally responsible for those murders because you voted for a Pro-Choice congress? I can’t answer that. However, I do know that when we die, we will be held responsible for ALL of the choices that we made. Every choice, no matter how small will affect your life forever, and change it in some way.
I personally believe in Capital Punishment. If someone WILLINGLY, Plots, Plans, and Carries Out Killing even ONE Person.. I believe he/she should suffer the same consequence and pay the ultimate price for Purposely taking someone elses life.
Jason
January 16, 2010
11:00 pm
Correction: I believe he/she should suffer the same consequence and pay and the ultimate price for Purposely taking another INNOCENT persons life.
Mike
January 17, 2010
1:01 am
Thank you Lily. Since you now claim to believe that murdering innocent babies is the moral equivalent of murdering innocent Jews, then fill in this blank…
Lily believes killing innocent Jews is murder, and would never pull the lever for anyone who advocates that position, regardless of how they stand on other issues.
Lily believes that killing innocent babies is murder, but WOULD pull the level for someone who advocates that position, as long as they are right on ‘other issues.’
Lily believes that innocent babies are not worthy of the same ‘voter loyalty’ as innocent Jews because…
Lily Love
January 17, 2010
10:47 am
If someone is truly pro-life, shouldn’t you be pro EVERY life? I pull the lever for someone who is pro-choice just in the same way you pull the lever for someone who is pro-capital punishment. I don’t understand how you can view the murder of a baby, as worse than the murder of a criminal. I’ve said it a million times which for some reason you aren’t thinking is true, or trying to avoid it because you don’t want to admit that capital punishment is murder, murder of anyone whether it be a baby, criminal or jew is murder.
“I explained my belief that few women made the decision to terminate a pregnancy casually; that any pregnant woman felt the full force of the moral issues involved when making that decision; that I feared a ban on abortion would force women to seek unsafe abortions, as they had once done in this country. I suggested that perhaps we could agree on ways to reduce the number of women who felt the need to have abortions in the first place.”- Barack Obama
Barack Obama is concerned about the fact that women will then seek unsafe ways to terminate their pregnancies. I think if abortion were illegal, they would be going to different countries to get abortions, doing it themselves with coat hangers in back allies, the number of babies found in dumpsters would escalate and suicide numbers would also increase. Obama has always voted to ban late term partial birth abortions. He in no way is “nazi-like” in his ways of a holocaust. I believe in Obamas vision of a nation where less women feel the need to get abortions, through making adoption more accessible and having safe sex AND abstinence taught in schools. I know in a perfect world they would only teach abstinence and none of the kids would have sex in response to that, but it will never happen. So if we focus on educating the people about abortion and how horrific it actually is, and giving them other options, i think we will be on our way to having women who don’t consider abortion an option.
There is a much larger issue here than whether abortion is legal or not, it’s that the woman in this country have a lack of morals and are in for a quick way out of a commitment. Which that will not go away if abortion is made illegal.
Mike
January 18, 2010
11:40 am
Lily, I will enage you on ANY ISSUE you wish. Promise! We have lots of time to do that, and it will be my privilege to give you that platform on my blog… but not at the expense of, or diversion from, this most pivotal question that demands the dignity of your very direct and forthright response. So once again…
You are willing to give innocent Jews a vote of protection at the ballot box that you are not willing to give innocent babies. You’ve admitted that.
By affording them 2 different treatements, you are therefore confessing that you hold them at 2 different value levels – or else your behavior toward these 2 groups wouldn’t be any different.
YOU HAVE NOT explained, however, what exactly is that moral difference between innocent babies and innocent Jews – why one is so serious you could never vote for it, but the other you would be willing to tolerate because of other more important issues.
Please anwer the question directly before continuing on. Or at least have the courage to admit that you don’t know why… and we can pick it up from there.
What is the difference between an innocent baby and an innocent Jew?
Frank
January 22, 2010
10:34 am
Why do pro-lifers only talk about abortion ? A life is a life….you cannot be pro-life and pro-capital punishment.
You cannot be Pro-life and support a war in Iraq and Ahfghanistan.
Sorry, there is no inbetween…a life is a life and there is only one entity that can take a life, you will meet it when you die
Lily Love
January 22, 2010
10:00 pm
Thank you for your comment Frank! I have said that millions of times but he doesn’t seem to think that is the truth. Pro Life is Pro EVERY
Lily Love
January 22, 2010
10:01 pm
life ..not just a babies life…you should not be pro war, pro capital punishment, or anything that involves the taking of a life
Mike
January 23, 2010
12:25 am
Let the record officially show that Lily was not able to answer the question, lest she convict herself by her own answer.
Lily, you cannot even answer this question before ME. But you WILL have to account to your heavenly Father for your tolerance of the murder of little innocent babies, created in His image, in exchange for other ‘more important issues.’
Very seriously, you really must completely depart from this. Furthermore, your inability to confront why you give two innocent groups differing treatments is at once telling and damning.
You and those like you, who carelessly play fast and loose with innocent life in exchange for ‘other issues’ are far from the heart and will of God. Your votes are directly responsible for perpetuating the mother’s womb as the most unsafe place in American society.
I invite you to Google search pictures of aborted babies. LOOK AT IT if you can! Tell me if it is some tissue blob you can remain indifferent to, or is this an innocent human life slaughtered on the altar of the mother’s convenience?
Do you really want to stand before God knowing that the blood of these babies are on YOUR hands because you voted to make this possible?
Lily Love
January 23, 2010
7:21 am
Wow! very Christ-like of you to say everyone that voted for Obama is far from the heart of God. And you state that your a band trying to bring people to Christ and show them the love? You have done nothing of the sort. If anyone differs in opinions you have shown how easily you write them off and condemn them.
and for the record, i did answer the question. I don’t view them differently. There was more to nazis than just killing the jews, that is just the part that every uneducated person who went to jr. high knows about. There are many reasons as to why i don’t view Nazis and the Obama administration as the same thing. And the blood of all of the babies are not on my hands, they are on the hands of the mothers who commited those acts. Whether i voted for obama or not, it wouldn’t stop those mothers from walking in that clinic and getting the abortion. And i don’t believe God is going to hold you accountable for my sins, so why would i be held accountable for someone elses sins?
Eric
January 24, 2010
11:52 pm
So Lily… I’ve noticed that Mr. Warner has accused you of “tap dancing” around the issue. Well, he is putting on a good performance himself. I’ve read this whole comment section and Lily has answered every question posed to her.. several times in fact. Mr. Warner, however, has cleverly avoided every single issue. Typical christian.. they will never directly answer a question but instead will answer a question with a question, throw in a pinch of blame and then spew out some bible verses as if that proves some sort of point.
I love how judgmental the christians are. They preach of love and forgiveness but they DO NOT practice that. They preach “GO WITNESS, PLANT THE SEED, BE HIS VOICE, LEAD BY EXAMPLE” but noooo do not spend any time with the “sinners” because you might catch what they have or you may waste your time being “ungodly” or perhaps even tempted. How do you expect people to be led to christ if you dont spend time with them? Shun the obama voters, shun the gays.. spit on them rather than love them. Yeah, sounds like a great plan.
And what may I ask does Hitler have to do with this? That is such a cheap shot and one that people seem to use when they know they are losing an argument. No one supports Nazis.. thats a ridiculous comparison. And Mr. Warner has failed multiple times to respond to the allegation of supporting capital punishment.. Christians think that “bad” people deserve to die.. when in fact we are all bad people. And what happened to sin is sin is sin. How do you justify the murder of an adult criminal v. an innocent baby? You dont know that criminals life. Do they not deserve a chance to repent and ask for forgiveness? Eh, forget it.. just burn them, they deserve it right? God did not create the human race to act as his minions and do his dirty work. Why don’t the christians just stop already? Why dont they actually try something different and LOVE people? No.. that would be too much work. They wouldnt be able to hide behind their bibles and play cute little concerts, but instead do some real hard work.
My advice? Practice what you preach, for once.
Frank
January 25, 2010
12:01 pm
Again I will state Pro-Life is Pro-Life for every life, it really is simple but the Religous Right and the Republican Right love to only consider unborn babies as the focus of Pro-Life. There’s nothing more shocking than a picture of a bloddy aborted fetus but why not a picture of a dismembered soldier? How about a picture of a body after electrocution ? Nah this doesn’t fit the agenda.
The whole abortion issue is nothing but a carrot held out by the republican party to lure the righteous voters in voting for the ” Pro-Life” candidate but I ask why wasn’t abortion made illegal why the Republicans had control?
We can go round and round, I don’t support abortion being a Father of 2 Children and I would never recommend it to anyone as a solution but at the same time I don’t believe it should be illegal…..it’s a woman’s choice that they will have to live with, making it illegal changes nothing.
I believe in a Libertarian society where self responsibility is goal #1 and everyone is accountable for their actions, not a society controlled by government and religion because they are man made .
Again I will ask all REAL Pro-lifers to stand for all life…..denounce the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and take a stand against Capital Punishment…..if not, you are hiding behind the Abortion Issue so no one can see your true colours.
Mike
January 26, 2010
12:56 am
For those who would consider voting for a pro-abortion candidate but would never even consider voting for a pro-Jew-killing candidate, please look at the pictures of an abortion on this site http://www.antiabortionsigns.com/catalog.html and tell me if you still think you can vote indifferently to the holocaust that is abortion, in exchange for ‘other important issues.’ Let’s see if you would still give these holocausts 2 different standards of treatment at the ballot box…
Frank
January 26, 2010
8:49 am
Mike
Will you please take your blinders off and consider all life important ? Will you please be a real Pro-lifer and stand against the war and capital punishment?
If not you are a farce!
Eric
January 26, 2010
4:07 pm
Mr. Warner.. do you even read the comments in this section??? What is your fascination with the Nazis, Hitler and the holocaust?? Each person has stated that they do not approve of said things.. but again, you retreat back to your weak comparison. Also, we have all see the pictures of the aborted fetuses. They are horrific. But lets move away from the dead babies/dead Jews debate and why don’t you re-read the comments that have been previously added and actually be a reasonable human being and a MAN and try and answer some questions. You wouldn’t want to come off hypocritical now would you? You sound like a broken record. I believe everyone here wants to and deserves a real response and a legitimate discussion.
Lily Love
January 26, 2010
6:11 pm
I’m starting to think that Mike will only debate with women, because regardless of what every other man on here writes, he will only direct anything towards me. Maybe its because he feels he can over power women and get them to back down? Who knows. But it blows me away that despite everyone telling you something on this blog, you continue to ignore it. And you accused me of tap dancing? Every issue you brought up, i did respond to..but you, you just ignore it because i honestly believe you don’t know what to believe. I think you don’t want to accept that capital punishment is murder, that war is murder…because God did all of those things in the Bible. God says there will be war and the whole “eye for an eye” deal. So if someone murders, let them be murdered, is the whole biblical concept, correct? I believe you don’t know the answer to any of the questions posed to you about capital punishment or any other type of murder. Are you truely pro-life? Instead of calling your “anthem for the nation” a pro-life song…call it the pro-baby anthem…because it talks only about abortion…what about all of the other lives? Babies, full grown adults, teens, children..whatever the case- are all lives regardless of the mistakes made. The dictionary doesn’t define a “life” as only something considered to be innocent.
Frank
January 27, 2010
8:20 am
Lily & Eric….thanks for the back up and agreement that all life is important. It really baffles me how the Christian right has blinders on and is only focused on abortion.
It almost seems that if they only focus on abortion that they may also get rid of one other of their hangups….SEX, without SEX there can be no unwanted pregnancies thus no need for abortion.
This may be a stretch but it falls into their agenda.
Just for the record, I am a practicing Catholic but I consider myself a “Buffet” Catholic ( I pick and choose what I agree with). I am a Christian at heart and I believe religion has been a tool of man for many of the wrong reasons since the dawn of time.
At the end of the day I still believe everyone has to answer for what they’ve done.
As far as Mike Warner’s music, Brian Warner’s music may be more relevant to today’s society than Mike’s.
Mike
January 27, 2010
1:26 pm
You have all tried marvelously to prevent from having to answer the question. But until Lily admits the real reason why she doesn’t mind pulling the lever for a candidate who supports the lagalized killing of innocent babies, whereas she would never support a candidate who would support the legalized killing of Jews, I have no further comment. Avoiding the original question is NOT engaging in substantive debate.
If you had read MY comments, I assured her (and I will assure all of you) that we have plenty of time to discuss other issues. I am willing to discuss ALL issues, but not out of turn.
So Lily… I am not going to let you wiggle out of this one. You never answered the question… please explain your voting difference between the legalized killing of babies and legalized killing of Jews. Why is one people group so important that you would ALWAYS vote against a pro-Jew-killing candidate, but you’re not willing to apply the same standard to the pro-baby-killing candidate?
If you are claiming they have the same value to you, your behavior would be the same. But it isn’t. You treat them differently. YOU confessed that. I’m asking the question until YOU define that difference.
Fievel
January 27, 2010
6:17 pm
Pop quiz!
Lets say, for example, a 13 year old girl ends up getting pregnant. She does not want the child, but her parents are against abortion, and, furthermore, the family is poor and unable to raise a child.
The girl has the baby, and it is given up for adoption. The child grows up in a rough setting, and is abused by its caretakers. When the child reaches its teen years, it can no longer handle it’s living situation and ends up killing its caretakers and the rest of their family.
Considering only this case, would it have been better if the 13 your old girl had an abortion?
Keep in mind, the un-aborted child suffered through life, and ended up killing multiple people.
Fievel
January 27, 2010
6:23 pm
Pop quiz, case study 2!
Say for example, a parent finds out that their child is positive for the gene that causes Huntington’s Disease which is a horrible disease that usually has onset around the age of 20 years old. This is generally the age at which an individual develops their own personal life and identity. This disease causes severe cognitive decline, physical decline, and generally poses a severe burden on the family. Wouldn’t it just be easier to have aborted this child and prevented a lifetime of suffering and simply just conceive a child that is born healthy that could potentially live a full life free of negative physical, emotional, and cognitive consequences. Thank You.
Mike
January 27, 2010
8:49 pm
Hi guys. BOTH are great questions, and I can’t wait to discuss them. However, I would like to start that on a different thread, under a differently stated topic heading.
Do you think “Abortion Exceptions” would be a good one? I could set it up and (I think) successfully copy your comments to that page. Thoughts?
Frank
January 28, 2010
8:31 am
Mike
Please answer these questions and stop dodging them by focusing on Lily, your questions about Jews are irrelevent since killing Jews in the USA has never been legalized nor will it ever be
Isn’t all life valuable?
How can you support war and Capital Punishment?
C’mon Mike, step up to the plate and rejoice!
Lily Love
January 31, 2010
10:34 pm
Mike,
I would never vote for it because I would never have the choice to vote for it in this country. I’m not okay with killing jews, or killing babies. So stop beating a dead horse.
Mike
February 3, 2010
12:57 am
Lily… checkmate.
And if you’re not going to answer the question, please don’t blog here anymore. Your ‘Debate 101′ tactic of trying to change subjects, or now claiming that “I would never vote for [Naziism] because I would never have the choice to vote for [Naziism] in this country” has revealed how vacant your reasoning is. Not to mention grossly intellectually dishonest.
So go ahead… keep trying to explain that somehow the best way you can combat the horror of abortion is to KEEP VOTING FOR PRO-’BABY-KILLING’ candidates. It makes no sense to me; won’t make sense to God when you stand before Him.
God help the Jews, should Naziism should ever gain hold in America. Using Lilly’s reasoning, applied to a similar human atrocity, I know how she would recommend combatting the horror of killing innocent Jews… by VOTING FOR THE NAZIS.
Do you see how senseless that kind of reasoning is? So please, don’t pretend you care. Not here on my blog. You’re only interested in not having to admit you’re wrong – and apparently at anybody’s cost.
Either answer the question or admit you don’t have one. At least then I’d respect you as honest. But for now, your own words reveal you as brazenly hypocritical… while the babies mount up – along with your votes to keep it that way.
Frank
February 12, 2010
1:15 pm
Mike
Why are you a racist? You must be cause you will not answer my questions? Forget about Lilly Love!!!
Please answer this:
Isn’t all life valuable?
How can you support war and Capital Punishment?
C’mon Mike, step up to the plate and rejoice!
Jim
February 18, 2010
11:57 am
To every blogger, I have read all answers and questions and find it quite intresting. First Lily never did answer the original question. The question was How can she vote for someone who is ok with killing babies if other issues suit her, but would not vote for Hitler even if all other issues suit her?And all Mike is asking is for is an answer to this question, and then he will go on with other questions.And in case Liliy dosen’t know true christians are out and about trying to open peoples eyes,and are not hiding in our houses “clinging to our bibles”or in our”soap boxes” Have you not heard of Focus on the Family or noticed church groups and the work they do? The problem is there are to many people that use the word christian so loosely ,and this gives all of them bad names. Second where does Frank come up with Mike supporting war and capital punishmint? In case you don’t know plenty of Democrats have agreed in war and capital punishment.Even Obama.Unless you forgort we are still fighting a war .I say this because I guess your saying Mike agrees with these because he voted Republican.The remark of racist was also a show of your intellegence,and completely unfounded,and uncalled for.Third Fievel , your first pop quiz is pretty lame,alot of what ifs. Your second pop quiz , sure takes alot of stock in the word potentialy ,I think that means, may happen . An argument can easily be made the other way for babies who “potentialy” may have diseases but were not aborted and made huge benifits to society, never developing there said desease.Lily, As far as innocent, the word means uncorrupted by evil,malice,or wrongdoing;sinless;pure.Not guilty of a specific crime, or something unethical.So that is how you can determine if a person is innocent or not according to the actions chose to do against the said one.Lily’s talk of Obama being for less abortions must be a well kept hidden secret because his actions and appointies speak other wise. In case you don’t know funding for abstinence education was cut while safesex teaching was raised.He has repeatedly helped Planned Parenthood.Very good moral values,and his voting record on abortion is the most liberal of any Senator there has ever been. Look up the facts.And as far as this election there were plenty of other “issues”and reasons on why to not vote for Obama . Some of the moral issues ,abortion,same sex marriage,and teaching of homosexuallity and transgender in our schools (to children as young as 6&7)is a disgrace.Case in point being his appointment of safe school czar Kevin Jennings.Those of you who think your voting for lower taxes better be ready for the cap and trade ,You see Democrats hide the raising of you taxes and call them programs or funds.This is not to mention His socialistic views. I guess what I’m saying is If you have any morals and enjoy our” Republic “(that is what we are , read the constitution)I don’t see how you could vote for this man.In closing being prolife is more then just about abortion, it is about life from conception to death, this includes embryos, babies , adults, the elderly and assisited suicide. God is the one who makes the gift of life and it should be him that decides when it is over.
Frank
February 22, 2010
10:39 am
Yo Mike…A great anti-abortion song for you band to is [Frank, I have elected to edit this song recommendation because I do not want to drive people to that band - whose name itself is profane], give it a whirl…simple chords so even you band should be able to do it!
Frank
March 5, 2010
10:59 am
Sex as a word is profane? is it not even listed in the bible? So the bible has profane words in it? Mike please get real, you are probably pro-censorship.
Mike
March 6, 2010
12:50 pm
No, “sex” is not a profanity by itself. After all, wasn’t it God who created it?
But indiscrete use of the word – especially in conjunction with another word (like the band name that you posted) is definitely a profane thought. And on MY blog, I censor vulgarity – many eyes are watching this.
Expression of ideas – always. Employment of vulgarity in the process of those ideas – never tolerated here.
I respect the integrity of the ideas and our audience too much to degrade either of them. So while I continue to welcome your and other’s thoughts, I do ask all to respectfully refrain from any use of vulgarity – especially when that same idea could be expressed using less offensive terminology. Thanks.
Frank
March 8, 2010
3:56 pm
OK, then I’ll censor it myself….your band should think about playing the song ” Bodies” written by Glen Matlock, Steve Jones and John Lydon. It’s one of the most powerful and honest anti-abortion songs I’ve ever heard. Give it a listen with an open mind, it echoes your sentiments.
I also saw something very ironic today while driving to work on the bumper of an automobile. One sticker on one side stating ” Life is Precious” and on the other side ” GO ARMY”
Ya gotta luv NEPA!
cindy
April 2, 2010
9:37 pm
I know I am late to the conversation but I just don;t understand where the problem is with the 2 bumper stickers . . . “Life is Precious” absolutely – “go army” thank you for protecting lives, the army (at least that in the US) does not walk around killing for no reason they are protecting the precious lives of many